(Audio) The fintech CrowdDesk offers Funding-As-A-Service

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(Audio) The fintech CrowdDesk offers Funding-As-A-Service

The fintech CrowdDesk offers Funding-As-A-Service

This interview is in media cooperation with Frankfurt Forward (https://www.frankfurtforward.com/news/). We talk to Johannes Laub (https://www.linkedin.com/in/johannes-laub/), one of three Founders and Managing Partner of CrowdDesk (www.crowddesk.de), a Frankfurt-based fintech. They started out as a crowdfunding tool for municipalities and developed into a white-label solution for crowdfunding platforms, as of January 2020 running 56 crowdfunding platforms. They developed the tool further into a point at which startups can raise funds e.g. by integrating their “Go fund me” button on their website.

In the interview, we talk about how he went from an apprenticeship in a bank selling mutual funds, to university, had some experiences with starting a music label. He even experienced sales cycles in municipalities and found startup funding as a lucrative market.

With the go-fund-me Button a company placed on its website, any company sticking to the local rules could raise funds this way.

 

Affiliate Links

 

The hard thing about hard things
https://amzn.to/2S62X30
Ben Horowitz tells his story from an employee, afraid to lose his job to CEO of a company caught in the dotcom bubble to VC investor
Zero to One: Notes on Start Ups, or How to Build the Future https://amzn.to/37H2MSp Peter Thiels, the famous investor tells you his mental framework to think about innovation
Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies https://amzn.to/2Ob0xyS Reid Hoffman’s, the founder of LinkedIn, advice on scale fast

 

Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything

https://amzn.to/2v97KZG

Readworthy book to familiarize yourself with economic theory, or learn more about how to apply it.
Need a bank account? Try our partner Penta http://bit.ly/3bdHX3d
Need a space to work? Try our partner WeWork https://we.co/2GYbxvS
Looking for someone to design a logo, do a transcript or a voice over? Find all of it and more at our partner Fiverr http://bit.ly/2S0f2YF
You can listen to Venture Capital books or entertainment on your way to work with an audible subscription – you get the first month for free

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00NTQ6K7E?tag=startupradi0e-21

 

Video Interview:

During the interview we are talking about:

Mutual Funds https://www.investopedia.com/articles/mutualfund/08/foreign-mutual-funds.asp

MS Dos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKNts8liWI

Johannes (is as Joe from Startuprad.io) hailing from Rheinhessen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinhessen_(wine_region)), a very nice area and the largest wine growing region in Germany. It is just one-hour drive away from Frankfurt.

European Business School (EBS): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBS_University_of_Business_and_Law

CrowdDesk Blog (in German only) including the crowdfunding from Quickborn: https://blog.crowddesk.de/die-crowdfunding-pioniere-eine-erfolgreiche-gr%C3%BCnderstory

BaFin (German finance oversight body): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Supervisory_Authority

Mezzanine Capital (Between equity and debt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzanine_capital

KfW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KfW

Freakonomics Podcast: http://freakonomics.com/archive/

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The fintech CrowdDesk offers Funding-As-A-Service

The fintech CrowdDesk offers Funding-As-A-Service

This interview is in media cooperation with Frankfurt Forward (https://www.frankfurtforward.com/news/). We talk to Johannes Laub (https://www.linkedin.com/in/johannes-laub/), one of three Founders and Managing Partner of CrowdDesk (www.crowddesk.de), a Frankfurt-based fintech. They started out as a crowdfunding tool for municipalities and developed into a white-label solution for crowdfunding platforms, as of January 2020 running 56 crowdfunding platforms. They developed the tool further into a point at which startups can raise funds e.g. by integrating their “Go fund me” button on their website.

In the interview, we talk about how he went from an apprenticeship in a bank selling mutual funds, to university, had some experiences with starting a music label. He even experienced sales cycles in municipalities and found startup funding as a lucrative market.

With the go-fund-me Button a company placed on its website, any company sticking to the local rules could raise funds this way.

 

Affiliate Links

 

The hard thing about hard things
https://amzn.to/2S62X30
Ben Horowitz tells his story from an employee, afraid to loose his job to CEO of a company caught in the dotcom bubble to VC investor
Zero to One: Notes on Start Ups, or How to Build the Future https://amzn.to/37H2MSp Peter Thiels, the famous investor tells you his mental framework to think about innovation
Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies https://amzn.to/2Ob0xyS Reid Hoffmans, the founder of LinkedIn, advice on scale fast

 

Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything

https://amzn.to/2v97KZG

Read worthy book to familiarize yourself with economic theory, or learn more about how to apply it.
Need a bank account? Try our partner Penta http://bit.ly/3bdHX3d
Need a space to work? Try our partner WeWork https://we.co/2GYbxvS
Looking for someone to design a logo, do a transcript or a voice over? Find all of it and more at our partner Fiverr http://bit.ly/2S0f2YF
You can listen to Venture Capital books or entertainment on your way to work with an audible subscription – you get the first month for free

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00NTQ6K7E?tag=startupradi0e-21

 

This video is set to premier at 15.00 Central European Standard Time (CEST), 14.00 Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), 9 am Eastern Standard Time (EST)

 

During the interview we are talking about:

Mutual Funds https://www.investopedia.com/articles/mutualfund/08/foreign-mutual-funds.asp

MS Dos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKNts8liWI

Johannes (is as Joe from Startuprad.io) hailing from Rheinhessen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinhessen_(wine_region)), a very nice area and the largest wine-growing region in Germany. It is just a one-hour drive away from Frankfurt.

European Business School (EBS): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBS_University_of_Business_and_Law

CrowdDesk Blog (in German only) including the crowdfunding from Quickborn: https://blog.crowddesk.de/die-crowdfunding-pioniere-eine-erfolgreiche-gr%C3%BCnderstory

BaFin (German finance oversight body): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Supervisory_Authority

Mezzanine Capital (Between equity and debt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzanine_capital

KfW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KfW

Freakonomics Podcast: http://freakonomics.com/archive/

 

Interview Transcript:

Intro:                     Welcome to Startuprad.Io, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, interviews, and live events.

 

Joe:                        Welcome everybody; this is Joe Startuprad.IO, your startup podcast and YouTube blog from Germany in English only. I’m here today to bring you a startup of the month, this time startup of the month of January 2020.

Yes, we are already in 2020, and it’s a media partnership with Frankfurt forward. I would like to welcome my interview guests, Johannes. Hey, how are you doing?

 

Johannes:            Hi, I’m doing fine. How are you doing, Jörn?

 

Joe:                        I’m doing great, thank you. Greatly appreciated. And for everybody who doesn’t know the story behind it, Johannes now has to fulfill a promise of his co-founder he made five years ago, that he’ll give me an interview. So thank you very much for fulfilling the promise, even though it took a little bit of time.

 

Johannes:            Yes. Sometimes that takes longer, Jorn, so you got better a part of CrowdDesk with me and the better founder, no, I’m just kidding. Jamal was very eager to take the interview with you, but he’s just so deep and loaded with work. So I took the pleasure, and I’m here now to ask every question you have towards me.

 

Joe:                        Great, let’s get started with it. I’ve been stalking you a little bit on LinkedIn, everybody who’d like to reach out to you directly; they can go down here in the show notes. There is a link to the Startuprad.IO website where we do a blog post for every YouTube interview, and there you will be able to find directly your LinkedIn profile, even though admittedly, there are not too many people with your name around on LinkedIn. And I realized you are investment [Inaudible 00:02:11.12] so you’re originally from mutual fund area, right? How did you end up in startups, and what did he do before CrowdDesk?

 

Johannes:            Yes, actually, that was quite a story that took some turns. I grew up not so close to Frankfurt is like 50 kilometers away from Frankfurt, so you have a direct train connection, but it’s a one-hour drive. And we always had, from the region where I come from, Rheinhessen it’s Oppenheim, it’s little wine country.

When we go to the Frankfurt skyscrapers, and that’s what’s actually where all of our three founders, we’re all from this region, we’re attracted to it. And when we made our [Inaudible 00:02:58.06] in 2006, we started trading a little bit with options, with stock options, and gained some experience and make some money. And so we thought okay, probably let’s just go directly into the working space.

And so we made [Inaudible 00:03:15.27] driven bank, where we gain the title investment [Inaudible 00:03:21.28]. But as we all know, it wasn’t the end; it was actually this time when we found out how underutilised and old-fashioned the industry, the financial industry works.

We were there in the company working with other CRM that was still working with Ms-Dos. So you didn’t have to use any mouse, you could only use some shortcuts to go from one mask to another, I don’t know if this term even exists.

 

Joe:                        May I interrupt you here for everybody who does know Ms-Dos, we’ll have a link down in the show notes.

 

Johannes:            Sure. I forgot that there are still some younger people who have never seen some; they don’t know what the safe button is in Word or Excel. Yes, this is the time where Ms-Dos comes from. Yes, and this was actually quite a good experience because then we saw what actually is possible. And what we found for, even we were older now, and we found for actually, this was, we thought it must be state-of-the-art, but it wasn’t, and so it was a starting point to make something different. But we didn’t go into funding after the apprenticeship.

We made some experiences like starting a music label, what was not a quite big success because I’m not very talented. But it was an experience, and we made some websites for cities, for companies, but it was not a really scalable startup that we founded until when we studied actually. But then was in [Inaudible 00:05:07.06] the next small wine region.

 

Joe:                        I was laughing so hard people couldn’t hear it. Music label, I was wondering if I would be singing. Oh no, nobody will listen to it. That’s actually a great part of the story. So you came from a mutual fund background started out with the music label. And then admittedly I’m also from Rheinhessen, so that’s a thing we have in common. And then you went on to study at the University, right?

 

Johannes:            Yes. We wanted to collect some more academic experience, and we always thought okay, probably the European Business School was the best go to university at those times. Similar to the [Inaudible 00:06:03.07] at the moment. And yes, we were just normal common students, but it wasn’t actually enough. So after one and a half years, we skipped school and dropped out of the University and started our first startup.

It was very out of the focus we had so far because we haven’t had any focus was I told you music label making websites, there was nothing that would prepare us for that. But it was a startup that took place in the Municipality financings. So the financing of cities and small towns. So if somebody had told me that one year before that we do something like that, I would tell him that he’s crazy or something like that.

 

Joe:                        Admittedly, within financial services financing for municipalities regularly does get the label of very boring. How did he get from investment funds to music to very boring? How did this happen, what happened?

 

Johannes:            Actually, story started in [Inaudible 00:07:17.28], so that’s a small city in northern Germany. It was the height of the financial crisis, 2009, something like that, so May 2009. And the city wasn’t able to collect any money from banks. So they were just running out of money, even though they had a good investment rate at that stage, but the banks just didn’t have any liquidity.

And the mayor of the city just called a town hall meeting and said okay we need some money, I think it was like four million to build a new school and we have that all in our budget. And we have the planned, and we have the contract, but the banks aren’t able to handle the liquidity. And then the citizens of the town said yes, okay, we have liquidity.

We don’t feel safe with banks at the moment, let’s make a deal, and they collected the money in like three days from all the citizens. The interest was paid directly to the citizens, so everybody was happy at the end. The only thing they forgot about is their regulatory.

So the BaFin, the German regulator it wasn’t a friend of the system, because actually when you do something like that, you need like a bank license. And obviously, a city doesn’t have a bank license.

 

Joe:                        I see, yes, the BaFin. [Inaudible 00:08:45.23] everybody, it’s the German version of the SEC, for example, FSA in the UK, Financial Service Authority. So they stepped in and played the bad guy.

Because in Germany, it’s regulated that if you have to build up something, if you have to build up an accounting or audit system to take other people’s money in, you have to be licensed as a bank that’s paragraph number one of the German banking laws. So they violated that, and how did this story unfold?

 

Johannes:            Yes. The good things, the BaFin told them they aren’t able to redo it, but they didn’t have to give the money back. So it was declared legal in the end, but not for the future. But we saw actually there was something happening; there was some magic in it because there was a direct connection between a city and the citizens. And we thought okay, probably you could do something more out of that.

And that’s why we founded [Inaudible 00:09:53.21] so lend money to your municipality, to your city. Very complex name, some of the learnings I probably have is to stick to easier names and to shorten names because you have problems at edges you never would have foreseen. So when you want to print some business cards, something like that, we are conflicted with a long name, but that’s another story.

And we thought okay, probably if we build a web platform where a city can put in their new school or their new investment for a new sporting facility, something like that. So everybody would gain from that. If the money would flow directly from the citizen to the city, and the interest wouldn’t pay to any foreign bank in Frankfurt or whatever.

The thing is, it was technically not so hard; for us, it was hard because they owned three founders; one of us was the technical guy. The big challenge was to overcome the regulatory challenges so that you really have a legal system where that works. In the end, we had to include a bank for one logical second in the process, so that the BaFin was able to give us the good to go.

 

Joe:                        Admittedly, crowdfunding within Germany is always including a bank because you need the bank to basically take the risk, and then from their balance sheet separated again, that was the last update I had on it, right?

 

Johannes:            You talk about crowdlending, this is the German term for when you can do direct contracts between lenders and burrows. But then they have to have a certain part in the contract, where that’s actually like equity. So it’s not a loan you give a handout, it’s more like equities. [Inaudible 00:12:19.04] between equity and debt. And debt is just a small portion where the BaFin says okay if you hand that out that sort of contract, you will be good to go.

 

Joe:                        Yes. Everybody who’d like to learn little bit about [Inaudible 00:12:35.24] equity and debt go down here in the show notes towards the blog. There we will have some links from Wikipedia, Investopedia and so on and so forth. Admittedly, the title of the startup is a little bit bulky in English lend money to your municipality, as well as in German [Inaudible 00:12:58.13] but you still around, how did you proceed? How did it work?

 

Johannes:            Yes. It was quite a challenge too as three young students dropping out of the university to convince mayors all Germany that they trust in a system that doesn’t work with banks. Or we included a small upcoming Bank that nobody knew at that time. We talked to the [Inaudible 00:13:26.23] at those times.

That’s the biggest German municipality lender. But they actually said yes, we can’t work with a small startup. In the end, they were convinced, but that was like four years later, so it was a little bit too late for us. But we are very happy that they did it in the end. And that was actually; the challenge was to make the sales, to really convince the mayor to do it now. Because they all say oh good idea, we have a project coming up in four or five years, it’s not a time you want to wait if you’re a young startup, you need to resolve very fast.

But we stick to it, we push through, and then we convinced one city, it was [Inaudible 00:14:16.19] in the end, but it was no connection to the university, it was just actually coincidence. And yes, they gave us the chance to put a project on the website, on the platform. We’re collecting money for the fire station, so really something basic where nobody had something against it; it was a really good project.

We collected 80,000 euros in a couple of weeks. So that was the target, so it was quite a big success for us. Because all the technical stuff worked, the regulatory stuff worked. What didn’t work in the end was actually that we thought now the north was open. The challenge was overcoming all the cities in Germany would call us and said okay, great idea, can I come to your platform and you make some revenue with me? Yes, that didn’t happen. So there were some calls, but they all said good idea now it works. We still have the project only in three, two or four years. Yes, and we didn’t have the patience or the money to wait that long.

And that’s why we started actually the second crowdfunding platform, equity-based crowdfunding platform with [Inaudible 00:15:41.25] so lend money to your environment. This was actually not so far from our strategy we had in the beginning. Because when we made our first business plan, in the beginning, we hop from one business plan, competition to another to gain some money that was quite successful.

We had in the first strategy, a book on the first strategy paragraph that we wrote. Hey, when we make [Inaudible 00:16:21.17] to a big success, there are other niches we could fill. So lend money to your environment, lend money to your boss, to your company, to your local football club. So there were like many ideas where we could go in with that idea. But we saw with [Inaudible 00:16:42.06] that it’s really hard to make the sales if you don’t have any network if you don’t have any projects if you don’t have any investors.

That was all we had to build up from the beginning, but we made it with the first two platforms. They are still running today. So it’s [Inaudible 00:17:00.24] the first startup partner of the KFW. And [Inaudible 00:17:09.06] is the biggest [Inaudible 00:17:12.21] investments in Germany.

So we showed that it works. But what we learned from that is that we as a company, we can’t scale the sales process. But what we could scale, that’s what we do today is the software part and regulatory part. So that we give out tools that everybody, literally anybody can build his own platform, and collect money via his own website, via his own platform.

 

Joe:                        And that’s how we finally end up at crowd desk I have the feeling.

 

Johannes:            Smart you, smart.

 

Joe:                        Admittedly, at the time I met you guys was when you’re still around [Inaudible 00:18:09.12] but everybody who has been complaining about corporate site cycles of six months. Listen to that; it can be up to five years.

So no confusion on why you did something else, but is it now running? Did actually all the cities who said yes, we all have project in four years in five years; did they actually come to the platform in time?

 

Johannes:            Actually not, because we weren’t pushing that, because we never made any revenue with [Inaudible 00:18:45.18], but it was a good showcase for us, it was good PR. We made it to the German biggest television station. We made it in big German newspapers, even some international newspapers because the idea was quite compelling to many people. And we gained the former German Minister for finance; Hans [Inaudible 00:19:10.16] to be convince him with the idea.

But it actually makes sense that you make the direct connection between these two. But if you don’t own any money with it because but of charity, or we’re doing it for charity, we knew that we had to make the next step. We always thought about cooperating with the KFW, because they have the safe network anyway. They are talking to the cities every day, but in the end, we just have to be honest to ourselves that it’s just too, how do I put that, it’s just too costly to have so many salespeople working on the cities. They would do it, but you have to push them.

Because the mayors, and camera, the text people, the financial guys in the cities they have so much work to do. That anything they do out of the comfort zone is just a big stretch for them. And so we said okay, let’s put the platform up and running. If any city comes to us, we will be happy to help them. But we moved on to the next stages in our in our startup life.

 

Joe:                        And now you are offering a crowdfunding white-label service. Basically, you cannot get the crowdfunding there, not a connection, but you can get the software at your company, right? That’s right, actually. When people come to us and say okay, we want to collect money via the internet, that’s all sort of project from yes. All the visions we had in the beginning from football clubs, from small, mid-sized companies up to big banks, they used the software. You actually have two customer crews. The first one are really the project that they do, probably just once or twice in their lifetime.

So if they have a big event in their company history, like probably it’s a startup, they need money in the beginning. Or it’s a company that is overtaken by the next generation, and they need some money to give it to the people who sell it. Or we have a big investment case; they will have a new factory. There’s all sort of use cases. What we know is that every project, every company needs some money in some stage.

We don’t know exactly when, and we don’t know exactly for what. But we offer for all the stages and all those cases we offer the software. The other part of our customers are actually the guys who transfer capital from one place to another. So like banks or big platforms, and they do it in a professional way.

So they take out the little portion of the money, they transfer, and this is like the [Inaudible 00:22:20.20] the GLS bank. The folks in [Inaudible 00:22:24.08] bank from Germany and some European platforms. They collect money all over Europe for projects like startups, like small, midsize companies. I’m repeating myself here; you know what I’m talking about here.

 

Joe:                        Yes. One of the most intriguing products you have is, we talked about it in the past; it’s the GoFundMe button, that’s something I really like. Can you talk a little bit about that, before we get into what Frankfurt means for you and [Inaudible 00:22:58.02]

 

Johannes:            Yes. Actually, when we started programming the software, [Inaudible 00:23:04.01] said something like, it was like 2011, 2012. It wouldn’t be nice if every company would just put it invest now button, GoFundMe button on their website and start collecting money via the Internet. We didn’t laugh at him, but it was like a megalomaniac at that time. So we said yes, okay that’s a long way to go.

Actually today we make that happen. So if any company comes to us, we give them the opportunity to install a GoFundMe button on the website. And we make sure that the funding is regulatory compliant because what you have to keep in mind is that if you sell something via the internet like products, like something you produce with your hands, something you just sell once, or you sell via your platform like probably Shopify does that.

They just give out shops like online shop that you can implement in your website. It’s very easy because it’s always the same process. It doesn’t matter if you buy shoes or buy a fridge; it’s always the same checkout process. When you collect money via the Internet, it’s something totally different. Up to six were rivals change that process; it changes if the company is small or big.

How much money it collects, from whom it collects. In which regulatory framework does it collects, so we all have to make sure that it still looks very easy, but as you know when something looks very easy, there’s some time and some laugh put into the process. And that’s what we make sure today that we have a really easy process that every company can collect money via their website with just implementing a small bot.

 

Joe:                        You talked about the variable of depending on where you are, and all of that stuff for the GoFundMe button. I would be curious is there any illegal reason a company from the US, from Australia or Singapore, Brazil could not use it right now on the website?

 

Johannes:            It does depend on where they collect money. Because the BaFin or the SEC, they always collect these small investors in their country, that’s their main goal. And you could as an Australian company radically collect in Germany, collect money in Germany on France or whatever framework we offer at the moment, that’s all of almost all European countries.

As long as they stick to the German rules, so the German regulator or the France regulator sets out, you have to write a prospectus or not. The prospectus has to be so long. You have to put that warning sign on your website, or you don’t have to. And when you obey those rules that we give you as a software, it’s totally doable for any company in the world. It changes if you want to collect money as Australian company in Australia because then we have to adapt a system to the Australian regulatory scheme which we haven’t done so far. Hence, there are still some steps to take for us.

 

Joe:                        You cover the United States?

 

Johannes:            Not yet, no.

 

Joe:                        Okay, I see. I think about you enough with the software; of course, it was totally clear that I won’t let you off easy when I had to wait five years for making an interview, non the less. We are talking as media partners off Frankford forward, and I would be curious why you guys are in Frankfurt and what Frankfurt means for you.

 

Johannes:            Yes. Actually what I told, in the beginning, holds still truth today. We were always looking from our small city up to the Frankfurt skyscrapers and thought okay, we want to be there; we want to work there. We want to leave an impression on the city, and this is what still drives us today. So I live in Frankfurt now. I have my girlfriend in Frankfurt now.

So I’m totally became a Frankfurter, and that’s not easy to say for somebody to come from the other side of the Rhine. So we adopted the city, and I love it because for me it connects the two things internationally, the international touch you can get here. Yes, everybody says it, but it holds true.

How can you be 20 minutes at the airport and fly to actually every city in the world? And on the other side, it’s not so huge that you still have a local culture when I go to [Inaudible 00:28:09.15] with my boys. I still feel like it’s a small city, small community and this is really what makes Frankfurt for me probably the best city that I could have founded my company in.

 

Joe:                        I see. There is just one goofball question to kind of wrap it up, our interview, we are now recording close to half an hour which I have to admit was quite interesting so far. And I would be curious if you could describe your life either as a book title or movie title or combination of both. What would it be and why? Don’t worry; you can still take your time and think, we will keep the recording running and get some kind of jeopardy music to run under it.

 

Johannes:            Okay. A book or a movie title.

 

Joe:                        For example, for me, I always say I’m a combination of pinky and brain and Forrest Gump.

 

Johannes:            Yes, it’s actually quite catchy. Probably a book that inspired me and really has some truth, and I don’t know if anybody knows it, but it’s Freakonomics. It’s like the economics behind things that you couldn’t explain, and the first thing and why does it describe our life or describe our company is that we build up a new way to get capital out of the system.

And there’s something you can’t see so far, because it just doesn’t happen so often, but it happens more often every day. And I hope to build, to do once be a chapter in one of these books so that anybody says okay, where everybody can read yes, actually they made a difference. They changed something micro-economically, and that’s probably what first comes to my mind. Sorry, I don’t have any more creative answer at the moment.

 

Joe:                        Don’t worry, everything is totally fine. Freakonomics is a very good book. I read it as well. And they actually do also have a podcast which we will link down here in the show notes. And what I found interesting is if you apply in Freakonomics economic theory to like all sort of crimes, it actually makes sense.

Because if there’s a lot of drive-by shootings, the drug dealer at the next corner will demand more money, because the risk is higher. It’s the same logic as in banking, even though applied in a very different situation. I strongly recommend it; you can also get it as an audiobook if you go down here in the show notes we have affiliate links of audible as well. Any last word, anything you’d like to say about your co-founder who made five years ago a promise you have to fulfil?

 

Johannes:            The next interview he will be here, and he will do the interview with you. I won’t tell him any question, and I hope you have some mean questions still left for him.

 

Joe:                        So tune in to the next interview with crowd desk 2025.

 

Johannes:            Hopefully.

 

Joe:                        Great. It was such a pleasure having you, thank you very much for your time.

 

Johannes:            Thank you, yes. Thanks. Bye.

 

Outro:                   That’s all folks. Find more news, streams, events and interviews at www.startuprad.IO. Remember sharing is caring.

By |2020-07-01T14:39:41+02:00February 6th, 2020|blog|0 Comments

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