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Finance Automation for SMEs: How Moss is Redefining Financial Operations

Updated: May 9

Moss finance automation platform for SMEs in Germany and Europe

What Is This About?

Moss is redefining financial operations for SMEs by automating spend management, expense tracking, and corporate card administration. This founder interview explores how the Berlin-based fintech is replacing manual finance workflows with intelligent automation for growing European businesses.

Introduction

Moss is redefining financial operations for small and medium-sized enterprises by automating the expense management, invoice processing, and spend control workflows that traditionally consumed hours of manual effort. This in-depth interview covers how the Berlin-based fintech built a platform that replaces scattered spreadsheets and paper receipts with a unified system, and how they are scaling across European markets where SME financial infrastructure remains surprisingly analog.

Moss automates financial operations for SMEs — expense management, invoice processing, and spend control — replacing manual workflows that consume 15-20 hours per month in typical small businesses. The platform integrates with existing accounting systems and banking infrastructure, reducing implementation friction that has killed previous automation attempts. The Berlin-based fintech has expanded across European markets by adapting to local regulatory and banking differences while maintaining a consistent product experience. The interview reveals the go-to-market strategy that achieved product-market fit in a segment with notoriously high churn.

Moss empowers SMEs to automate finance workflows and scale smarter. Discover AI-driven solutions transforming SME finance in Europe

This founder interview is part of our ongoing coverage of Scaleup Founder Interviews from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.


🚀 Management Summary


Moss empowers SMEs to automate finance workflows and scale smarter. Startuprad.io brings you independent coverage of the key developments shaping the startup and venture capital landscape across Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

Startuprad.io dives deep with Ante Spittler, co-founder and CEO of Moss, a Berlin-based fintech powerhouse revolutionizing financial operations for SMEs. This post explores Moss’s journey from startup to scaleup, the evolution of their intelligent finance stack, and the future of AI-powered finance in the DACH region. Perfect for founders, CFOs, and investors navigating Europe’s dynamic fintech landscape.


📚 Table of Contents


🚀 Meet Our Sponsor


Why Finance Automation is the Future for SMEs


Finance automation is transforming how SMEs handle budgets, approvals, and compliance. Manual workflows—spreadsheets, email approvals, and paper receipts—are being replaced with intelligent software like Moss. This shift promises not only efficiency but strategic insights to help businesses scale faster

Finance automation uses software tools to streamline financial processes like expense management, accounts payable, and budgeting. For SMEs, it reduces manual effort, enhances compliance, and enables real-time financial insights.

❓ What is Moss and How Does It Work?


Moss provides a full-stack finance platform designed for SMEs in Europe. Its core offerings include:

  • Corporate credit cards with real-time spend tracking.

  • Automated receipt matching and expense categorization.

  • Accounts payable and cash flow management.

  • AI-powered financial insights for CFOs.

With over 300,000 cards issued and €5B+ annual payment volume, Moss is a category leader in the DACH fintech space


How Moss Tackles Pain Points in SME Finance

European SMEs face challenges like fragmented ERP systems, slow approvals, and regulatory complexity. Moss addresses these by:


✅ Offering a unified platform for all finance tasks.

✅ Simplifying ERP integrations (NetSuite, SAP, Xero).

✅ Maintaining enterprise-grade compliance and BaFin licensing.

✅ Delivering an intuitive, user-first experience.


This approach eliminates “tool sprawl” and positions Moss as the iPhone of finance software for SMEs.


The Role of AI in Modern Financial Operations


Moss isn’t stopping at automation—it’s building intelligence into finance. Ante Spittler describes how Moss’s AI automates 19 out of 20 finance tasks when an invoice is submitted, freeing teams to focus on strategic growth.


Future possibilities include:

  • AI-powered cash flow forecasting.

  • Embedded treasury and FP&A tools.

  • Voice-assisted financial planning.


Lessons from Scaling a Regulated Fintech in Europe


Scaling in a regulated environment like fintech demands resilience. Spittler’s key insights:


  • Hiring Right Matters: Onboarding leaders properly is critical.

  • Iterate Fast, But Think Long-Term: Pivot early on bad bets.

  • Balance Founder Life: Avoid burnout to sustain the journey.


These lessons are vital for any founder operating in the highly competitive DACH startup ecosystem.


🧵 Further Reading


  1. The Ultimate Guide to Startup Funding in the DACH Region

  2. Top Fintech Startups Revolutionizing European Finance

  3. Crunchbase: Moss Company Profile


🚪 Connect with Us

Relationship Map

  • Jörn "Joe" Menninger → Host of → Startuprad.io

What is this article about: Finance Automation for SMEs: How Moss is Redefining Financial Operations?

Moss is redefining financial operations for SMEs by automating spend management, expense tracking, and corporate card administration. This founder interview explores how the Berlin-based fintech is replacing manual finance workflows with intelligent automation for growing European businesses.

What are the main takeaways from this discussion?

Moss is redefining financial operations for small and medium-sized enterprises by automating the expense management, invoice processing, and spend control workflows that traditionally consumed hours of manual effort. This in-depth interview covers how the Berlin-based fintech built a platform that replaces scattered spreadsheets and paper receipts with a unified system, and how they are scaling across European markets where SME financial infrastructure remains surprisingly analog.

How does this topic connect to the broader startup ecosystem?

Moss automates financial operations for SMEs — expense management, invoice processing, and spend control — replacing manual workflows that consume 15-20 hours per month in typical small businesses. The platform integrates with existing accounting systems and banking infrastructure, reducing implementation friction that has killed previous automation attempts. The Berlin-based fintech has expanded across European markets by adapting to local regulatory and banking differences while maintaining a

About the Host

Joern "Joe" Menninger is the host of the Startuprad.io podcast and covers founders, investors, and policy developments across the DACH startup ecosystem. Through more than 1,300 interviews and nearly a decade of reporting, he documents the evolution of the European startup landscape. Follow Joern on LinkedIn.

Support Startuprad.io

This founder story was produced by Startuprad.io, the leading independent podcast covering the German and European startup ecosystem. If you enjoyed learning how Moss is redefining financial operations for SMEs, subscribe to our podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and leave a review. Your support helps us bring more fintech founder stories to light.

Automated Transcript

1 What if the future of finance isn't in spreadsheets or 2 banks, but in software that actually understands your business? 3 Today's guest helped build one of Europe's fastest growing 4 fintech platforms, empowering thousands of SMEs 5 to automate, spend, master real time budgeting 6 and finally ditch the chaos of manual finance 7 workflows. From corporate cards to E money licenses, from 8 P2 till backing debuffing compliance, this founder's story is 9 real redefining what finance ops can be. Stay tuned. 10 This once a master class for modern CFO, 11 SaaS, builders and startup fans alike. 12 Welcome to Startup Rad IO, 13 your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German 14 startup scene with news, interviews and 15 live events. 16 Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate IO bringing you 17 another exclusive deep dive into the minds shaping the future of startup

18 finance and technology across Europe. Today I'm 19 joined by Ante Splitter, the CEO and co founder of 20 moss, a Berlin based fintech scale up that's 21 become a category leader in Spanish event management and finance 22 automation for SMEs German Kaimus. If you're 23 a founder, CFO or operator tired of juggling 24 receipts, budget approvals and end of 25 month chaos like everybody is, you want to 26 listen closely. Musk is building the most intelligent finance 27 stack for European businesses, unifying everything from 28 copper cards and accounts payable to real time insights, 29 pre counting automation and embedded payments 30 all wrapped in a user first experience. They've 31 issued over 300,000 credit cards, raised 32 180 million in venture capital from the likes of Vala 33 Ventures and Cherry Ventures and now processes more than 34 5 billion euro in annualized payment volume,

35 all while maintaining Baffin's licensing and enterprise 36 grade compliance. Ante brings a unique lens to this space 37 with roots in investment banking and venture capital, plus the 38 scars and lessons of building a high profile growth 39 fintech from ground up. Today we unpack his 40 founder story, most products, evolution and the high stakes future 41 of AI powered finance for SMBs. Ante, great 42 to have you on startup radio. Welcome to the show. Hello Jern. 43 Likewise. Very glad to be here. This was quite an 44 introduction. I really like that one. And of course 45 we'll dig a little bit deeper but let me 46 start out with asking. You were once deep in fines like 47 investment banking, VC consulting. What was the specific 48 pain or moment that make you say ah, forget spreadsheets, 49 let's rebuild finance ops from scratch for European small

50 and medium businesses at the typical frustration of 51 an analyst or investor with Excel doesn't 52 count. Everybody experiences that. 53 Yeah, it's a honestly things came 54 Together while I was building my prior business together 55 with Anton, who is also co founder in this company. 56 And it was a marketplace startup. We 57 grew very quickly to decent size. So within the first two 58 years we had more than 25 million revenue. And 59 everything was centered around expansion. 60 As you can imagine, what was really behind 61 was our finance setup. So after 62 18 months, 18, 24 months, 63 we realized if we don't get a grip on 64 finance now, it's going to kill us, like literally. 65 Um, and then, so what followed was a significant 66 cleanup with temporary resources, you know, our 67 internal team trying to find invoices, receipts.

68 It was a total chaos and it took, I would 69 say at least six months to clean up and another six months to, you know, 70 properly close the books and run to the audit. 71 And, and I think this was the moment that that kind of sparked 72 my hate and passion, if I may say, 73 hate for the situation we had, but also the passion for 74 there needs to be a better way. And then it took a while longer 75 until it really became the vision for Moss. 76 So it was not that right after I got 77 extremely excited to continue with 78 the finance suite. Instead 79 I spent a year in venture capital and, and they realized 80 it's a ton of other companies that have very similar pains. 81 And this is what together has led to 82

actually launching the company. Thinking about the vision, thinking 83 about the first product. And yeah, now six years later, 84 we're still here. Actually, when you talked about 85 the love hate relationship with the finance 86 department, in my mind there was somebody looking very much like 87 Sigmund Freud wearing glasses and ask, could you, 88 could you elaborate at your love hate relationship there? But 89 let's forget about that. You 90 guys must launch with bold ambitions, corporate cards, 91 automation and now full spend orchestration. What was 92 the first moment with friction make you doubt whether 93 European SMEs were ready for this shift? 94 Look, honestly, the market is still 95 fairly early if you think about the customer adoption 96 curve. Yeah, so the famous S curve, we're still pretty far on 97 the left. And the main competitor has 98 been and still is manual

99 workflows, it's literally Excel, it's email 100 signature folders, especially with SMBs. So basically 101 everything that finance teams has found as a workaround to get 102 the job done. And 103 after we started, we managed to launch this 104 first incredible product. Yeah, and we were super lucky that we actually also 105 started with that product. And it was a cards issuing platform, a 106 cards management platform, as you said. And then on top, the expense, 107 expense tooling. So how can I process the receipts, how can I connect with 108 finance and. All of those Things we may add 109 most people, 80, 80% here from 110 listeners at least on the audio podcast, are from Germany, Austria and 111 Switzerland. But we do have a lot of viewers, especially on long 112 form YouTube, who are not familiar with the system. So basically you

113 first make your card expenses and then you have to 114 get also for the tax authorities, a receipt, an 115 invoice that matches this expense. And you have to do this depending 116 on your size and every month, every quarter, every year. 117 And it's a big headache. It's one of the reasons I have fewer hairs. 118 Yeah, like one really interesting point. And 119 honestly, I only got to learn this a bit later. Yeah, I realize. Yeah, it's 120 so obvious. But then somehow it's also so crazy. In business, 121 every single transaction, no matter if you spend five bucks on 122 a coffee or if you buy a lunch for a client or if you 123 invest hundreds of thousands or millions in machinery, 124 everything has to be administered. Like every euro, there is no black, 125 there is no hole in the, in the cash. You know, like it's, everything

126 needs to be done. So having said that, the administration 127 is very significant burden. And now to get 128 back kind of to your question, the biggest, 129 the biggest point of friction, the biggest question for us was 130 will we be able to pass beyond 131 that cards platform and being a cards and spend 132 management company to becoming a much bigger finance suite? 133 Because of course, the vision was to go into this bigger finance suite 134 and the vision was to be able to tailor to accountants 135 and controllers for a much bigger, much bigger domain. 136 And, and this was a tough ride. Yeah. So once you have 137 the first product, when it works, getting to the next one is 138 almost like starting a new company. Yeah. It was a pretty significant 139 kind of learning experience and point of friction for us. And also doubt.

140 Yeah. On how the European SMEs will react. 141 You moved from an investor to 142 operator, from finance theory to 143 infrastructure execution. How did 144 becoming a founder and especially a regulated fintech 145 CEO r reshape how you saw yourself and your work? 146 Yeah, look, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very hard. Yeah. 147 The job is very hard and it's very demanding. I guess it's true for 148 many jobs, but I need to say it's particularly hard and demanding 149 based on my experience. And the crazy thing is 150 the role changes constantly all the time. 151 Yeah. So with every new wave of hires, the, 152 with every new executive that joins the team, with every new 153 priority for the quarterly OKR cycle, for the strategy for 154 the next year, a new market entry, every new kind 155 of fire in a Team is always changing

156 your priorities as a CEO. It will always impact on 157 which decisions you take, what you focus on, et cetera, et cetera. 158 So what it really taught me is to become 159 multivariate. Yeah. It sounds now very technical, but basically 160 be able to switch context very quickly. So now we're 161 recording this podcast. After that, it's going to be something 162 entirely different. Yeah. I'm not going to have a coffee with a different 163 reporter. But also to take decisions 164 fast. Yeah. Especially the small ones. But then take a lot more 165 time for the tougher decisions to shape culture. 166 Like things that never were on my agenda. Right. As a consultant or 167 in any other profession, you're basically kind of getting 168 shaped by the culture and not you're responsible for shaping that 169 culture. So what I want to say is it's a

170 ton of setbacks. You have to live with those. You have to develop a 171 positive mindset. Yeah. Otherwise you go crazy. And 172 you need a fighter attitude. Yeah. It needs to be this 173 willingness to win, the willingness to fight, 174 because there is a market, there are players, and 175 you are the new kid on the block. Yeah. You want to achieve something great, 176 but you're nothing. You have maybe some cash from a 177 fundraiser, you have a couple of people on your team, and now you want to 178 become something big. And this kind of 179 is, I think, one of the main ways 180 how it shaped me personally. Yeah. And also professionally. 181 Yeah. Just trying to think this through. When you 182 talked about a new executive coming into the team, it's like when you have 183 a new team member, some of your jobs get

184 absorbed by this person. You get to do more, but also 185 you have to think more, because it's not that you need to write 186 email, abc, but you need to tell this person what 187 to achieve in a month, in a year, and so on and so forth. So 188 you need much more time to think ahead. 189 Yeah, 100%. And it changes dynamics because 190 maybe first you were also execution responsible. Yeah. 191 So maybe first you were the person that worked together with the team on 192 getting the job done, and now suddenly it's exactly what you said. Suddenly 193 you're the context giver. Yeah. You're direction giver. You kind 194 of. You're the control tower. To make sure we stay on course. You work 195 together, you help. Yeah. And this is. And this is 196 constantly changing as the company

197 evolves. Yeah. From. From good to bad. I actually like 198 the picture of the control tower. Because you're avoiding the crash. Yeah, 199 of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. Especially with 200 tech companies where one of the key strengths Is to be 201 agile. Yeah. So one of the key strengths is to learn fast, to break 202 things, to iterate from there. Which also means 203 realize where things maybe are not going not on the right path. 204 Yeah. And I can give you, if you like, and give you like a very 205 clear example. We once 206 decided to focus on a customer segment that was a bit outside 207 of our ideal customer profile. And, and that 208 customer segment faced a little bit lower complexity in 209 finance, but actually, you know, 210 had some of the pains. And we went

211 after that segment and tested how is it 212 reacting now? Once we had enough learnings to know what works, what 213 doesn't work. It's so mission critical to make sure that this information 214 tickles across all of the teams. Because the marketing team is going to 215 continue driving, driving traffic, they're going to train your 216 driving, investing and same on an outbound sales motion. They need to 217 know whether they should continue focusing or not. So 218 it's really hard to keep this communication 219 best in class to make sure that everybody has the context 220 and knows what they have to do in this very quickly changing 221 dynamics. And I was wondering, 222 because I've seen quite frequently when I was still a 223 consultant in large companies that you did this with regular calls, 224 weekly or monthly, where people participated and

225 they worked through items, but actually they 226 tended to get bloated and bloated and you could hear the 227 people not paying attention and tapping in the background and all that stuff. 228 Have you found a better way to do that? You mean 229 with my team or for myself? Both. 230 Yeah. So look, I'm really, really, really 231 bad at multitasking. Anybody 232 will confirm. So the only way is don't 233 even try. And this is going to avoid the 234 typing, it's going to avoid the confusion and if it happens, people 235 will realize immediately and it's not going to be supportive. 236 So for me personally, it's 100% presence. If you're 237 doing it, just be present, take your notes, be, 238 you know, pay a ton of attention, etc, etc. On 239 the other side, I guess there is, I don't

240 know, it's difficult. Right. Ideally you don't want to have so big calls. Right. You 241 don't want to have calls where there are eight to 10 people on it 242 and especially not if people have the time to do other 243 stuff on the sides. Yeah. Then it sounds almost like the audience is too 244 big. So maybe, maybe what we try to do is we try to 245 steer kind of ex ante on what is the audience, how 246 can we keep it to the ones that are actually working on it, designing it, 247 because then There is almost like no chance to escape. 248 I'm personally always torn between doing such calls 249 with, as you already said, the smallest possible audience 250 or working with stuff like to do lists where you just send around to do 251 lists. But the problem is then always people lack the

252 context there or misinterpret interpret what is there. 253 Yeah, yeah, the context setting is really important 254 but I guess like the, the magic lies somewhere in the middle. 255 Yeah. So async, 256 Async, whatever can be done, especially in written form. I think 257 sometimes written form can reinforce things and bring things also back 258 on the same page later really, really effectively. But then 259 when, when there is a, the benefit of a discussion, benefit of 260 questions, then probably it's better to, to just jump on the meeting. 261 Exactly. From our awesome audience, I would like to know 262 what moment made you believe in your startup, share in the comments 263 or tag us on social media 264 until your darkest day. Moss made headlines with 265 layoffs like many other scale ups navigating the Fintech 266 winter. Take us to that day. What was

267 happening behind the scenes and what helped you push forward? 268 Yeah, it was horrible. Honestly it was 269 horrible, especially because in total it took 12 to 270 18 months. So we're not speaking about one specific day, we're 271 speaking about the whole journey that the company has to go through and that we 272 also had to go through. The context was 273 fairly straightforward. Markets turned, 274 we were over optimized on growth 275 and that setup was not fit for purpose anymore. The burn 276 relative to growth ambitions and especially to 277 cash. And the years of Runway was not in line. So 278 we had to take action on the other 279 side. We also made this promise. Right. So we 280 hired people, we kind of gave them an implicit or even 281 explicit promise. We're going to do our best to try to

282 make this company and you successful. Yeah, we're going to try to 283 coach you, to train you, to develop you, but we're also going to want to 284 create equity value in this company. And then we had 285 investors that gave us a ton of money that we 286 also promised we're going to do something great with that money. It's a 287 gene is the right roi, you know, you should invest here. 288 So honestly, there was also not really a way out. Yeah, 289 I think if you're serious about those things and if you're more accomplished, it's kind 290 of on the, on the fighter side. When it's uncomfortable, 291 you will still have to grind through it and. 292 Yeah. And then we just had to get our shit together. Yeah. 293 Honestly and literally we had to understand 294 where to think about what is the Future, that is a must have.

295 What are the strategic priors? What is the team set 296 up? What are the regrets? And no regrets. 297 Calculate this through, you know, through business case sessions and 298 everything that's needed. Discuss with the board, discuss with 299 people, team. Think about all of the consequences that it means for 300 the employees. You know, it's like, it's pretty significant. Yeah. Because 301 the market was in a downturn in general. So I would 302 say very heavy lifting and deliberate thinking 303 with many backs and forwards to then kind 304 of pull through. And now kind 305 of the second wave, second phase starts. Yeah. So 306 now you kind of completed your first milestone. The 307 culture needs to get, needs to be brought back on track. And 308 that's very, very, very hard. So here we learned our most painful 309 lessons. How, how to get the

310 motivation back when effectively there was a 311 severe issue. Yeah. When effectively things failed. 312 And, and this took a year. Now it's very. Now it's great 313 again. We are, we're so happy. Energy level is super high. Team is, 314 is motivated, pumped company grows. All of those things are now in 315 a good spot. But to get there was a very slow, 316 gradual and painful process. 317 You already talked in the beginning that you have a co founder. Let's talk a 318 little bit about the team demanding dynamics here. Moss scaled 319 to 250 plus people, processed over 5 billion euro 320 in payments and added key leaders like jan 321 Stehler from N26. What was 322 a painful lesson you learned about hiring trust or 323 involving your leadership team? Yeah. So 324 as I said before, the switch from 325

individual contributor, even like a co founder, mostly in the beginning 326 you just execute to a manager is pretty painful. 327 And I think the biggest kind of thing we had 328 to accept is it's hard skills and it's not talent or 329 soft skills or whatsoever. Yeah, they come into play a little bit. But there is 330 a, it's a hard skill to manage other people 331 and to do it right. Yeah. And at the starting point, 332 what is, I think is the most important element is the hiring 333 process itself. It's about the talent bar that is set. It's about the 334 expectations being very, very clear. What do we actually need? 335 What is the type of profile? What should they have seen in the past? 336 What is the minimum experience level? What are also markers 337 that make me believe that this candidate is worth speaking

338 and is more kind of interesting versus someone else. Right. Because 339 we have a. There is a huge market out there. Out there. 340 How does best in class look like? You know, like I'm sure 341 you had the situation where you interviewed someone and you 342 realized I must hire that person. Yeah. It's like it's this 343 very rare case and the 1% or whatsoever where you're so 344 excited you think this is the perfect fit. So how can I make sure that 345 that best in class kind of is visible at scale? 346 This I think is really number one. But then what comes next 347 is the onboarding journey. And I think here 348 we made mistakes pretty significant and I think almost everyone has 349 made those mistakes unless they are already much further in their career. 350 It's so much context that is centered in your

351 heads that only you have. It's. Yeah. Or your co founder or a couple of 352 people in the company that needs to make a transition. 353 Right. So for the new leader to do a good job, 354 they almost need the same context that you have. Yeah. And 355 it's how to do this while everything is moving fast, while 356 you're super busy, while you need to kind of give them the right information at 357 the right time, keep them focused, you know, plug in other people, 358 I think is very, very, very, very hard. So I would 359 say the, the most painful lesson has 360 indeed been mainly around being really good 361 in onboarding. It's too expensive if it fails. The first 362 few days, the first month, they're decisive in 363 what kind of habits people get in. And that's actually

364 we want to set it up properly so that people can really 365 understand who is there. It doesn't help if you get hired 366 and your boss is not there for the first two. You 367 just by habit report to somebody else and when the new boss comes back, 368 you'd still talk more to the other person. That's for example, something 369 I have experience which is not great. 370 Let's talk a little bit about emotional toll. You're building 371 a highly. In a highly regulated space with 372 aggressive growth and investor expectations. How 373 has this journey impacted your professional identity, 374 mental health or family life, especially as a 375 father? Yeah. It's kind of the magic 376 question. Right. And how 377 I like to boil it down. Then I'm going to give you some specifics. Yeah. 378 But how I like to boil it down and challenge myself is

379 am I happy in the current setup? So how it's going 380 right now, is this giving me happiness and joy 381 or is it not? And fortunately I can still answer the 382 question with yes. Like I do not want to be. I really want to 383 run this company. I really want to work my founders with all of the 384 colleagues here. I love the mission, I really enjoy working 385 on finance, etc. Etc. Etc. There is a 386 big however though. Yeah. And the however is it has a lot 387 of cost yeah. So first, first 388 in the first two years of my, of my first son and then also second 389 son got born roughly 15 months later. 390 I did not sufficiently see them. Yeah. So I had to pay the 391 price of not being sufficiently there. And only

392 after those two years I caught up with some paternity leave. 393 Yeah. A month. A month to spend with the kids. 394 And this was not a good thing. Yeah. I want to clearly say this was, 395 this was a big cost to carry, 396 but I also miss my tennis routine, you know, in many cases or 397 I deprioritized. So. 398 So one part of the learning journey was also 399 it's not going to be sustainable. It's not going to work long term. And 400 in particular it will not. You will not be able to answer the question 401 of are you happy with the setup? With the. Yes. If 402 there is no balance. Yeah. So right now, 403 in the last two years basically revise some of those 404 decisions. Yeah. And how to approach it 405 and have found some more balance. It doesn't mean it's a good work life

406 balance. It's horrible with two small kids and 407 the company to run. But the sacrifices are 408 very, you know, are different. Yeah. So maybe 409 it's seeing some friends less often. Maybe it's 410 skipping a conference or, or, or a 411 dinner. Yeah, attack dinner in the evening. Maybe it's something, you know, it's like other 412 things you can still control to make sure 413 you don't go mad. Yes, I know 414 exactly what you mean. That's also something I had to learn. For 415 example, what I. I've been adjusting my whole 416 lifestyle, my whole life. For example, before 9 417 I usually don't do any course because I drop off my. My two 418 sons at kindergarten. Mondays I get to 419 sleep in because my wife gets also a day on the weekend. 420 And so I get up late, I do lunch and then I start working because

421 I do have a lot of customers and clients 422 in the US and they like to do really late calls. 423 And so on Mondays they can book me until like 23:00 424 o'clock in the evening on Mondays. But you cannot do this 425 by starting at 9am Plus I also 426 learned the really hard way that you have to take off the weekends, at least 427 for me. No work, no work emails and 428 stuff like that. There was a tough lot, tough 429 thing to learn. But in the beginning you just work, work, work and then at 430 one point your body screams no, stop. 431 That's something exactly I learned as well. Guys, we'll be 432 back after a short app break talking, for example, about a make or 433 break moment. Founder misconceptions and market 434 surprises. 435 Hey guys, welcome back with Ant, the CEO and co

436 founder of Moss, a Berlin based fintech startup 437 that raised 180 million years so far from 438 investors including Cherry Ventures. We linked it here in the show notes 439 our interview with Cherry and Peter Thiel's Vala 440 Ventures. Ante, let's talk about a make 441 or break moment. Was there a point 442 perhaps during the rebrand or during 443 regulatory approval where you had to 444 decide do we pivot, 445 pause or push through no matter what? 446 We had many of those moments 447 and the earlier you take them kind of the smaller the moment is. 448 This is kind of a little bit of the philosophy that we have. It's a 449 continuum. So by being on top of 450 data, by being on top of kind of the strategy and what actually 451 needs to be done, what the vision is, and then following through

452 with early signals, we had multiple of those points. 453 Yeah. So we, we, we, we asked ourselves, for example, 454 shall we expand more internationally? Yeah, like, 455 very fundamental question. It's a massive distraction for all of the 456 teams. The product needs to be brought up to speed. Ton of other, 457 other reasons why it's a distraction, 458 but also how it can drive revenue. The second big one was 459 do we really go for our own license? Yeah. 460 Do we, do we, do we really want to get regulated and 461 build the team that is needed to 462 run to be compliant or do we rely 463 on third parties? There is a banking as a service providers 464 currently the question is when do we expand beyond spend 465 management? This is a pivotal moment for the company as the product suite

466 suddenly becomes much more comprehensive. So 467 yeah, there are 100%, there are those moments 468 and you will have to take a decision on do we do it or do 469 we not do it. And hopefully most of those 470 moments are happy moments. Hopefully. It's not a 471 moment where you say we have to pause, we have to shut down the 472 market, we have to shut down the product, we have to stop the company. This 473 will be horrible. Of course. I see. 474 Yeah, it's a steady fight. I would say that's also how 475 it feels here. Talking a little bit about founder 476 misconceptions, what did you 477 absolutely misjudge in the early days of Moss? 478 Either about the market, your customer, 479 or what it takes to truly digitize a 480 finance department. I can, I can, I can tell you a little

481 secret that maybe it's not really a secret. Don't worry, 482 it will be just between you and me and like 50,000 483 listeners on the podcast. Yeah. Then that's 484 fair. That's okay with this. Secret is fair. 485 If someone has not. Not misjudged 486 a ton of things, then they probably 487 didn't start the business. 488 The. My main point is it's. There is such 489 a huge ocean of 490 unknowns and there are so crazy big 491 complexities that if you take them, if you look at them 492 from a starting point, it's a wall that you cannot 493 climb. There is no way you will ever launch 494 a company. If you knew all of the obstacles, 495 you would just not do it and no one would give you money for it. 496 Yeah. So one 497 example, we got super passionate about the broader

498 finance suite. We had to find a minimum 499 viable product, though. And it's this kind of. It's the one shot 500 you have. You collect the seed funding, you build the first product. 501 You want to show some traction. If you pick the wrong piece, you're 502 dead. Yeah. And it can try to raise new money, but very likely it's not 503 going to work. So we were 504 super nervous about it, of course. And then we picked something 505 that retrospectively was actually way too 506 complex. Yeah. So we thought we can launch 507 a next generation credit card like the first of its kind, 508 but not in a way like banks do it. Yeah. American Express 509 or any other bank. 510 It was a platform where customers could issue 511 physical virtual cards with one mouse click. 512 Set limits. Do like a ton of stuff that you cannot even do.

513 Yeah. Like this whole card issuing platform was just 514 a beast. And then on top, it had the finance suite. 515 Right. So how do I connect? How do I. How do I now attach receipts 516 to single transactions? How do I assign accounting 517 categories? How do I do the coding? How do I connect with Data or with 518 NetSuite or with Exact. With Xero, like all of those ERP 519 systems, we entirely 520 misjudged the complexity of doing this. 521 Fortunately, the consequence was it was just very 522 painful and took a bit longer. But. 523 But it still kind of worked out and we saw many of those things 524 again. Yeah. I remember the day when we're sitting in the Cherry 525 office. It was an off site. We always ask them if we can 526 work in their big boardroom. They have a nice room. It's a bit

527 detached from the office. So we go there and then we discuss the serious 528 stuff. And I remember when we discussed the serious decision, when 529 are we. Are we like, are we going to leave the territory of Amex and 530 now expand into accounts payables or not? Yeah. Do we want 531 to build a suite where customers can also process all of their 532 incoming receipts? Yeah. That's very different from card transactions. 533 And I also remember that when we took the decision yes. 534 We brutally underestimated the requirements. 535 So this is three years ago. We're still working on the product and expanding the 536 product. I think the short and sweet answer is 537 if you don't misjudge to a certain degree, you're probably 538 never start. You should not entirely kind of fail, 539 but you will definitely misjudge. Yeah. 540

That's also what I felt when he said that if you really know 541 how big the problem is, you likely won't 542 start here. 543 You've described Moss as finance software 544 that actually works like your team does. What 545 trait in yourself once felt like a liability 546 and and ended up shaping Mosso's user 547 first design. Yeah. 548 So there is an interesting insight about 549 this, about this industry and also 550 here it actually took a while to get there. Even though it's super simple. 551 Finance and finance software were almost the first 552 proper. It was like first technology. Yeah. So amongst the 553 first. Yeah, let's call it like this. So what I want to say with this, 554 the ERP systems like SAP 555 or accounting software, it was the early days of 556 digitization, of putting codes into a piece of software

557 to run something in a digital way. Having said 558 that, they are their biggest, biggest, biggest pain. 559 If you boil it down to kind of 560 all of the pains that exist is the user experience. 561 Yeah. It's not that they don't offer functionality. 562 They have the broadest suite of functionality. They had 20, 30 years 563 of time to build all single functionality. 564 Where it breaks is the user experience. It's not 565 state of art. It doesn't adhere to the standards, neither in 566 design nor in the flows. It's 567 maybe less user centric, it's maybe more infrastructure centric. 568 Not all data is available kind of. 569 That's actually their biggest pain. So what we understood 570 and I'm so happy that our lead product 571 designer, Moritz, who was the only person in 572 that team when we started, got this very early, is

573 we will only be able to create this. 574 A very distinct and long term 575 differentiating factor. If we exceed 576 customer expectations on user experience. We have to 577 take an entirely different lens. How we look at those 578 workflows, how we design the platform, how 579 we incrementally optimize it. Yeah. Over and over again, 580 small stuff, big stuff. To create this compounding effect 581 of a superpower. And I think in this 582 regard we are very proud and we know it's true 583 and the market confirms it. Moss does have the best user 584 experience. If an, if an accountant, a controller, business 585 owner, a tax advisor, if they, if they want to have this 586 iPhone like experience. Yeah. You find everything by Yourself pretty 587 much the connections make sense. You can find, you 588 can, you have the right settings that you need and that's an

589 objective that we widely have achieved. Yeah, entirely. Will be too 590 optimistic. Ton of stuff to still do but. 591 But much better than anyone else in the market. Mm 592 hmm. I was wondering 593 if I could ask our audience the same question. What was 594 one founder trait you've turned from a liability 595 to superpower? Maybe even with your co founder. Let us know 596 on AX BlueSky threads or LinkedIn. 597 With over 5000 SMEs onboarded, 598 what unexpected insight changed 599 the way you understood CFO workflows, span 600 patterns or ERP integration pain points? 601 Yeah, there is. So first I think it's important to 602 segment the market a little bit. Yeah. Now it's getting, I don't want to get 603 too technical but just for the, for the audience also to get a better 604 understanding. There are small businesses, right? Micro

605 enterprises could be a solo trader, one person, could be two, could be 606 five, but basically a very simple and kind of 607 easy to communicate setup. Then there is the mid segment. It's the 608 companies to start with, let's say 10 employees and then go up to 609 500 or thousand. It's kind of the traditional 610 kaimo as you said, the traditional SMBs to choose like English 611 words. And then there is mid market enterprise 612 companies that operate globally, have huge organizations, 613 many entities, etc. Etc. 614 In that mid segment. And this is our core and this is where 615 kind of the, the biggest share of the GDP lies. 616 Yeah, this is kind of the biggest segment in terms of kind of the GDP 617 in business. The very surprising 618 insight was that they are not 619 zero digitized. It's not like

620 that. There is no software they use. I 621 mean they use anyways accounting software and erp. But even 622 beyond that the point was it was very 623 unsophisticated single point software. Yeah. So 624 for example there is a tool that allows you to 625 build approvals. So you as a company you 626 want to stay on top and control what people buy. So what you do, you 627 build an approval flow and now you want to buy something for 628 10k. Someone needs to sign off and not doing this kind 629 of an accident or via email or via signatures. The only way is 630 to bring it into a tool. The challenge though is if 631 you have one or two or three of those tools, you have 632 to manage your workforce on the tool. You have to onboard them, they have

633 to log in, they have to run the process and like who wants to 634 have three, four different tools to get the job done. 635 It's like it's a nightmare. So 636 the kind of. The most interesting insight was there are tools out 637 there, but they have one big deficit. They don't 638 connect the dots. They are isolated pain 639 points. It's isolated solutions. They are 640 not connected to the broader software landscape. 641 They are covering only fractions of the pains. 642 And this is an option for us to tackle. We 643 decided this is the way to tackle. 644 You've said Moss aims to be the most 645 intelligent finance stack for Europe's SMBs. 646 Paint the picture. What does that look like in five years? 647 Does it include Treasury AI, embedded 648 FPA, cross border FX? Yeah. So now, 649

now I love speaking about the future, but it's also very 650 hard to predict. 651 Maybe starting first with the fundamental belief. Yeah. And I think this is 652 what shapes like a lot of thinking for us at Moss and also for me 653 personally and my co founders. The first 654 layer that we tackle is the workflow. It's 655 creating a digital experience. Now, for 656 some, this might already be groundbreaking. Yeah. But if we are 657 honest, it's only the baseline, it's only process efficiency. 658 Right. You basically can do the job in a more orchestrated way and maybe a 659 bit faster and a bit more automated. The true power 660 comes from intelligence. Yeah. So how can I 661 digest that data and how can I use that data 662 in a way that makes people work smarter? 663 Yeah. Not. Not just harder. And by

664 comparison, here would be. For anyone who is working with CRM 665 software and in sales, think about Salesforce. Yeah. The, 666 the company, Salesforce, the product. 667 It's good if you can create a customer journey and a 668 buyer list and basically move away from a Google Doc, from Excel to 669 having it in Salesforce. But the magic is when you get all of 670 your KPIs, when you understand what the sales cycle is, 671 what the big deals are, when the follow updates are, when it automates your 672 ways of working, when it gives you the intelligence to say I'm on 673 track or I'm not on track. And it's the same thing with 674 Moz. We are building the foundational layer and 675 we are moving very fast on that front. But once 676 we have done this, we'll move and invest much more into the intelligence

677 layer. Because we want our customers, we want the finance teams, 678 the business owners, to just spend as little time as possible with 679 admin and focus most of their time on the 680 activities that change and drive their company. Yeah. And we 681 call it business partnering. Yeah. So you work with the team 682 to grow sales, to reduce costs, to improve margins 683 or whatsoever. So having said that. Yeah, it's the foundational 684 layer. This really great workflows end to end across 685 accounting, across controlling. Very likely not just focused on 686 spend, what we do now in five years from now, very likely also focus on 687 the revenue side. But then it's the layer on top, 688 it's kind of the cash flow forecasting, it's the budgeting, 689 it's a lot of additional use cases, effective cost 690 controlling, etc. Etc. That connect all of the dots in

691 the dashboard and then help businesses improve, help 692 businesses grow. Sounds pretty 693 good. Sounds like you'll have some kind of AI 694 agent best controlled 695 via audio and you tell him make a casual forecast this 696 and this and this changed and let me know tomorrow what are the 697 implications. Yeah, yeah. So I love 698 that. If I may, if I may say, I we're so excited about the 699 AI. AI kind of AI segment, 700 category, trend, whatever want to call it. And 701 one fun fact up front, AI has been 702 leveraged in finance since many, many years already. So 703 OCR, extracting information from documents and 704 categorizing it is basically a certain 705 form of AI and it's already in 706 most software since many, many years. What 707 fundamentally changed with the introduction of the LLMs and with the

708 power of the LLMs was to supercharge other parts and 709 connect more dots and more context and more information. 710 And yeah, so we for example right now are, 711 have a very, very powerful AI automation 712 platform. So let's say a customer submits an invoice. 713 19 out of 20 actions that have to be 714 taken, such as, you know, the service date, the 715 account category, the cost center, like everything finance 716 needs to do for the transaction. 19 out of 20 717 the machine can do for you in an automated way and an 718 accurate way. Yeah, and this is just think about this change. So just think 719 about you have to do one step out of 20. Yeah, it's a 720 very, very brutal improvement and it's just 721 starting. Yeah. So on compliance 722 checks, there's so many other areas

723 where, where AI will supercharge the 724 offering and it's not necessarily going to be kind of just 725 an AI agent. I think it's almost like it's a 726 misused terminology. It will be part of the software suite. The 727 AI will enable a better workflow and better 728 insights for customers through a specific user experience. 729 It might be a prompt, it might be kind of just in the background, you 730 don't even see it. It's just, it's just, it just executes the job 731 or it might be a different ways, but it's kind of, 732 it is going to be part of the software. Let's face it 733 this is well, but I had in mind if 734 it's from a psychological perspective, easier 735 for person to interact with an AI 736 agent that at least has some personality. I'm thinking about

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737 Jarvis here from Ironman or or 738 Skippy. Sci Fi readers would know 739 them, but that's a completely different topic. If anybody out there is 740 researching on that or knowledgeable about it, hit me up Joe, 741 celebrate IO and we can talk about and maybe even find an 742 interview for you. Let's reflect a little bit for the 743 closing in the Future version of ANTO 5 years 744 older post series D looked back at this moment. 745 What would he say to you right now? 746 Yeah, so I'm thinking about what the future me 747 will say. Yeah, this is a very very good question. Yeah. 748 So I hope it will say stay hungry, 749 push, but don't stress out too much. 750 Everything will be fine. I hope this is what they will say. 751 Everything will be fine. 752 Great. Awesome Ante. Thank you

753 very much. Awesome interview. Hope to have you back soon 754 and we'll now hop into the founders 755 world and talk a little bit behind the scenes 756 for our subscribers. If you'd like to join us, go on 757 substack or YouTube, become a paying member and you'll have access 758 to access to the Founders vote. Thanks y and all 759 the listeners. Really really enjoyed. My pleasure. 760 That's all folks. Find more news streams, 761 events and 762 interviews@www.startuprat.IO 763 Remember, sharing is caring. 764 Sam.

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