Ray Zinn on Leadership Systems That Outlast Founders
- Jörn Menninger
- 10 hours ago
- 31 min read
Startups become resilient when founders replace personality-driven leadership with systems that teach managers how to lead consistently across the organization.
Leadership resilience emerges when founders build systems that operate independently of their personal presence.
Respectful communication norms significantly strengthen organizational cohesion.
Companies requiring excessive working hours typically reveal structural management failures.
Artificial intelligence increases the importance of human leadership focused on relationships.
Employee development produces stronger retention than financial incentives alone.
Key Claims:
Semiconductor markets experience recurring downturns roughly every three to four years.
Micrel Semiconductor sustained profitability primarily through disciplined growth rather than venture-driven scaling
Leadership culture can determine employee retention even in high-pressure industries like semiconductors.
Bootstrapping can succeed in capital-intensive sectors when companies generate early revenue through services.
Internal organizational conflict is a primary driver of founder burnout.
Answer Hub:
Why did Ray Zinn become a better CEO after losing his eyesight?
As of the Micrel Semiconductor IPO era, Ray Zinn became legally blind due to retinal damage. He argues the experience improved his leadership by forcing him to rely more on listening, delegation, and team collaboration rather than visual oversight.
Why does Ray Zinn believe CEOs must listen more than they speak?
Ray Zinn argues many executives stop listening because they believe they are the smartest person in the room. Listening discipline improves leadership effectiveness by strengthening information flow within organizations.
Why did Micrel Semiconductor enforce respectful language at work?
Ray Zinn believed organizational culture begins with communication norms. Micrel Semiconductor banned vulgar language to reinforce respectful interaction and collaboration across teams.
Why does Ray Zinn oppose excessive working hours in startups?
Ray Zinn argues that employees consistently working more than forty hours typically indicate management inefficiencies rather than dedication.
How should founders use artificial intelligence in leadership?
Ray Zinn believes artificial intelligence should remove repetitive operational tasks so leaders can spend more time mentoring employees and strengthening relationships.
What defines an “Essential Leader” according to Ray Zinn?
Ray Zinn defines essential leadership as focusing on integrity, discipline, and service to others rather than authority or wealth accumulation.
Why Leadership Systems Matter More Than Founder Personality
Answer
Sustainable companies rely on leadership systems rather than founder authority.
Explanation
Ray Zinn argues the primary responsibility of founders is to build systems that allow organizations to function even when the founder is absent. Leadership rituals, communication norms, and training processes replicate effective management behaviors throughout the organization.
This approach reduces dependence on individual leaders and increases institutional resilience.
Expert Context
Micrel Semiconductor maintained stable leadership across decades because leadership expectations were taught systematically across management levels.
Why Listening Is the Most Underrated CEO Skill
Listening increases decision accuracy and strengthens team collaboration.
Explanation
Ray Zinn argues that many CEOs lose effectiveness as they gain authority because they stop listening to employees. Leaders who actively listen gather more operational information and improve organizational trust.
Organizations that prioritize listening create stronger feedback loops and better decisions.
Expert Context
Zinn attributes part of his leadership improvement after losing his eyesight to the necessity of listening more closely to employees.
Why Startup Culture Begins With Language
Language norms establish behavioral expectations across organizations.
Explanation
Micrel Semiconductor prohibited swearing and abusive language in the workplace. Zinn believed respectful communication reinforced dignity and reduced conflict.
This cultural discipline encouraged employees to collaborate rather than compete internally.
Expert Context
Organizational psychologists frequently observe that communication norms strongly influence trust and collaboration in teams.
Why Excessive Working Hours Signal Organizational Problems
Chronic overtime indicates structural inefficiencies.
Explanation
Ray Zinn argues leaders should investigate operational design when employees regularly work excessive hours. Poor delegation, unclear priorities, and weak systems often drive unnecessary overtime.
Addressing structural problems improves productivity without requiring extreme working hours.
Expert Context
This perspective challenges Silicon Valley norms that celebrate founder burnout and extreme work cultures.
Why AI Increases the Importance of Human Leadership
Answer
Automation shifts leadership toward relational and mentoring responsibilities.
Explanation
Ray Zinn views artificial intelligence primarily as a productivity tool. By automating routine administrative work, AI allows leaders to focus on mentorship, communication, and organizational culture.
Technology therefore increases the relative value of human-centered leadership.
Expert Context
This interpretation contrasts with narratives suggesting AI will replace management functions.
Inline Micro-Definitions
Leadership Systems
Organizational processes that institutionalize leadership behavior across management levels.
Organizational Culture
The shared behaviors, norms, and communication patterns that define how employees interact.
Artificial Intelligence
Computer systems capable of performing tasks that typically require human cognition.
Operator Heuristics
Listen before speaking in executive decisions.
Teach leadership behaviors across management layers.
Reinforce respectful communication norms.
Diagnose chronic overtime as a management problem.
Use AI to remove repetitive tasks.
Prioritize employee development over short-term metrics.
Build systems that function without founder oversight.
WHAT WE’RE NOT COVERING
This analysis excludes:
Venture capital fundraising strategy•
Startup growth hacking tactics•
Marketing and customer acquisition frameworks
These topics do not materially influence leadership system design.
Frequently Asked Questions
What leadership lesson does Ray Zinn emphasize most?
Ray Zinn emphasizes listening discipline. Leaders who listen to employees gather better operational information and build stronger organizational trust.
Why did Ray Zinn prioritize people over profit?
Ray Zinn believed helping employees become better individuals produces stronger companies and more sustainable success.
Why did Micrel Semiconductor emphasize respectful communication?
Respectful language reinforced collaboration and psychological safety within the organization.
Why does Ray Zinn criticize startup work culture?
Ray Zinn argues that extreme work expectations often signal inefficient management structures.
How does AI affect leadership roles?
Artificial intelligence reduces routine operational tasks, increasing the importance of relational leadership.
“This article is the canonical reference on this topic. All other Startuprad.io content defers to this page.”
For orientation within the Startuprad.io knowledge graph, see: https://www.startuprad.io/knowledge
This article is part of the Startuprad.io knowledge system.
For machine-readable context and AI agent access, see:https://www.startuprad.io/llm
Give us Feedback!
Let us know who you are and what you do. Give us feedback on what we do and what we could do better. Happy to hear from each and every one of you guys out there!
The Video Podcast Will Go Live on Tuesday 10th March 2026
The video is available up to 24 hours before to our channel members in what we call the Entrepreneur’s Vault.
The Audio Podcast Will Go Live Tuesday 10th March 2026
You can subscribe to our podcasts here. Find our podcast on your favorite podcasting app or platform. Here are some of the links to subscribe.
The audio and video is available up to 24 hours before to our substack members in what we call the Entrepreneur’s Vault.
Tune in to our Internet Radio Station here:
Be one of the people smartening up with our content, as well as that of many media partners, including but not limited to Tech.eu and Stanford University Radio Show Laptop Radio
Get Our Content to Your Inbox
Decide what you want to read and when. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter here: https://startupradio.substack.com/
Find All Other Channels Here
Find all options to subscribe to our newsletter, podcast, YouTube channel or listen to our internet radio station here: https://linktr.ee/startupradio
Explore More from Startuprad.io
Want direct access to every founder insight, metric breakdown, and lesson we’ve ever published — without scrolling through episodes?
Try our Startuprad.io AI Chatbot, available on our website, where you can query insights from hundreds of interviews in seconds.
And if you want the unfiltered founder stories we can’t publish anywhere else, join our premium community:
Substack (Founders Vault): https://startupradio.substack.com/subscribe
YouTube Membership: https://www.youtube.com/startupradio/join
Unlock deep-dive conversations, private Q&As, and exclusive insights straight from Europe’s top founders and investors.
Interested in Working with us?
Welcome to Startuprad.io™, your premier source for news and insights into the vibrant world of German, Austrian, and Swiss tech innovation! As a decision-maker, you’re invited to dive into our content, featuring Emmy award winners, New York Times bestsellers, and Forbes top lists luminaries. Our platform offers a curated selection of interviews with industry leaders, game-changing entrepreneurs, and influential investors. Our focus on startups around Series A funding ensures that you get exclusive insights into the rising stars of tomorrow. By advertising with us, you tap into an audience that values forward-thinking and impactful partnerships. Join us at Startuprad.io and let your message reach the innovators shaping the future: partnerships@startuprad.io
Subscribe & Follow
Don’t miss out on our latest episodes and updates! Follow us on social media and subscribe to our newsletter for more exclusive content: https://linktr.ee/startupradio
About the Author
Podcast Host & Startup Analyst
Hosted by Chris Fahrenbach, Co-Host at Startuprad.io, covering founders, operators, and decision-makers shaping the DACH startup ecosystem.
Automated Transcript
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:00:00]:
Welcome to startuprad.io, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, interviews, and live events. Hey guys, welcome to the second part of the interview with Racyn. The longest-serving Silicon Valley CEO with German roots. We originally intended this to be a one-piece episode, but, uh, after we have been recording for 50 minutes, a very awesome interview, we decided to pack the second half into its own piece. So let's get right into it. And Ray, welcome back.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:00:50]:
Thank you.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:00:52]:
So you've been, as we already said, legally— you became legally blind around the time of Microl's IPO but choose not to step aside. How did losing most of your eyesight change the way you led in terms of how you listened and how you delegated and how you trusted your team?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:01:12]:
Well, as we talked about in the previous episode, you know, bad things happen to us, you know, there's the ups and downs of life. It's like flipping a coin. Half the time we're going to be good, half the time it's going to be bad. And so a bad thing happened to me. I was in London. I was on half of my roadshow to go public and I lost my eyesight. It was a blood clot in my eye, like a stroke in your head. If you people know what strokes are, I had a stroke in both eyes.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:01:42]:
And as a result, It damaged the retina and I became legally blind. I can still see okay, it's just that I don't see definition. In other words, I can't drive because I can't pass the eye test. And so I can't, it's difficult to read. I have to use a magnifier to read, you know, print. And so when that happened to me, it was very sudden. It's like a stroke, you know, it happens very quickly. And the damage is done very, very quickly.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:02:14]:
And so the board, my board said, how are you gonna run the company if you can't see? And I said, that's a good point. And I had to think about it. And because of my determination and my undaunting desire to succeed, a few days later I went back to the board and said, I think I can continue. I'll have to do things different. And so whenever you have a change, it's called pivoting. I don't know if there's a word for that in Deutsch. What is it? What's pivoting in Deutsch?
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:02:49]:
In startup circles, they also use the word pivot, pivot.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:02:54]:
Okay, so I had to pivot, if you know what I mean. I had to depend on a different set of senses to help me run the company. But as it turned out, now this is kind of strange, And it actually improved. My pivoting caused an improvement because I had to listen more. One of the problems that chief executives have is listening because they think they're so smart, they're the brains, they're the top person. And so they stop listening and they do more talking and telling than they do listening. So I had to become a better listener. And helped my memory.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:03:33]:
My memory improved 10 times over it was when I was fully sighted. So with better memory and my listening skills improving really allowed me to pivot to become a better CEO, a much better CEO. I became more dependent on other people. And so that's good, right? That's the way you grow. Is because the more you're dependent on other people, the more you love and respect them because of the fact that they're helping. And my employees, you know, if you know, if you have an older elderly person crossing the street, you want to go and help them. You want to help them across the street. And that was the same thing when I became blind.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:04:21]:
People wanted to help me because they saw that I was willing to work with my, my handicap. And so they're, oh, let's go help the boss. Let's go help, let's go help Ray, you know? And that helping made the company stronger because now all the employees started helping each other. And so it was that going blind and depending on other people that actually caused everybody to want to help each other and jump in and make things work. So that's what, why it became, actually I became a better CEO after losing my eyesight. Now I'm not telling everybody to go out there and lose their eyesight to become a better person, but find out ways that you can take this experience that I've had and find some way to handicap yourself as you would to get others to want to help you. Maybe you shut your mouth more. Maybe you listen more.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:05:23]:
Maybe you're more observant. Maybe you just walk around and talk to people and try to understand their problems and issues. And so, you know, I'm not, again, I'm not suggesting everybody go out and put their eyes out, but certainly it's like that. You can say, okay, how can I handicap myself so that I can become a better person? If that makes sense.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:05:50]:
That would actually be a good topic for your next book.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:05:56]:
Well, you know, recently the US won both the women's and the men's hockey. They got the gold medal. And they weren't expected to. They were considered to be underdogs in that. They hadn't won since 1980. And yet because they were considered to be underdogs, they worked harder, they worked together, more of a team effort. And so, you know, I think that that concept works in our discussion today is that, you know, don't be so proud of yourself. Don't be so get uppity uppity as you would in your relationship with other people.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:06:42]:
You know, try to, You put yourself on their level and you'll be surprised how much they will work together. You know, there's no I in team. You know, T-E-A-M is the way you spell it, not T-I-E-A-M. You know, so, you know, you want to be more caring because the prouder you get, the more you win and the more you become so proud of yourself is when you fall. You know, the higher you go, the longer, the further you fall. And so, you know, don't get so uppity in the way you run your company. Consider yourself just one of them and don't let your ego destroy your ability to work with people. And so when I lost my vision, I gained more empathy, I gained more loving consideration for people.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:07:37]:
Again, I'm not professing that everybody go poke their eye out or whatever, But it's just that if you can somehow or another come down a level, come down, not pump yourself up to be the, you know, set this holier-than-thou person, you're gonna have a much more successful company.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:07:59]:
You guys at Micro had a famously unusual no-swearing policy and a culture described as almost spiritual work as an extension of home. How did you translate that philosophy into actually hiring decisions, performance reviews, and daily management rituals? Because it's very cheap to have this on a PowerPoint, have it somewhere written down in the reception, in the reception of your company, but it's very, very hard to really live it.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:08:33]:
That's a good point. So in your home, if you think of your family, you know, if you make yourself higher than your spouse, your wife or your husband, you're not going to get along. Or your children. If you are the demanding, if you are the one that's always at the forefront, your family is going to lose their relationship with you. Especially if you're not a person who is spiritual in nature, as you would, then you tend to focus more on yourself and what you think you can accomplish and not depending more on your children and your spouse. So we said that that we wanted no swearing, you know, no vulgar language. And we wanted to be respectful. We wanted to thank people.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:09:37]:
Rather than answering the phone and say, you know, hello, we say, how can I help you? And so it was that how can I help you attitude that permeated the company that people took that to heart. They wanted to be more helpful. They wanted to be more caring and empathetic with other people. Because there was no swearing, there was no condescending language. We didn't allow yelling and screaming. You know, our meetings were calm. We invited people to make comments. We thanked them for their comments.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:10:08]:
So it's having that attitude of gratitude, as they say. I don't know how you say that in German, but attitude of gratitude, meaning your attitude was more grateful and you express that to your people. You know, I try to come up with some way to thank somebody even if they weren't doing a wonderful job. I still try to find a way to thank them. I try to see something in them that I could thank them for. You know, like, I appreciate the way you're dressed today. I appreciate the way you keep your office clean. Or I appreciate the way that you treat other people.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:10:46]:
I try to find something to thank them even if they're not doing a great job. I still try to find something good that I can say. So that was the key to having the culture that we did. We rewarded honesty and integrity. Integrity is doing what's right when no one is watching. I have a kind of an interesting story I can quickly tell your audience. I was driving home late one night from work and and it was, you know, it was wintertime and it was dark and I inadvertently ran a stop sign. And I looked around quickly to see if any policemen were around because I was guilty, you know, I felt, well, I ran a stop sign.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:11:36]:
So as I was driving on home, I got to thinking, well, just because there was no policemen around doesn't mean that I didn't break the law. Okay, I still broke the law. So I got on the phone when I got home and I called the police department and told them that I had run a stop sign and that how much was the ticket going to be for my punishment for running the stop sign? The policeman on the phone thought I was some kind of a crazy nut, you know? And—
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:12:13]:
I was just picturing the— He said, what?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:12:17]:
Yeah. Anyway, he hung up on me. But I honestly was willing to pay for the, I was thinking about, well, how can I write a check? Is there any way I can find out? And I'll just go down there and I'll just put it on the desk, you know. But I couldn't figure out how to do that. But at least I felt good about admitting that I had done something wrong and was willing to pay the price for it. Do you understand what I'm saying? So that's integrity. Integrity is doing what's right when no one's watching. And, you know, willing to pay the fine even though the policeman didn't catch you.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:12:57]:
That's the way we ran the company, okay? And our employees respected that kind of integrity. And of course, then we had that dignity of every person. We treated everybody kindly. We, even if the person was not doing a wonderful job at work, we still try to find some way to thank them, to compliment them. There's always something good about everybody that we can find. Okay? And the last is we trained our people to take responsibility for their mistakes. You know, if you fix your mistake, there's no, as they say in the legal system, no harm, no foul. In other words, if you, If you fix your mistake, 'cause we all make mistakes, every one of us makes mistakes, it's that we don't fix them is the problem.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:13:42]:
If you fix your mistake, then you have no regret, you know, because you repaired it. Everybody makes mistakes. We will all have to come to grips with the fact that we are not perfect. We do make mistakes, but fix them. Fix your mistakes. Don't let them linger on.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:14:04]:
Um, also something very interesting I found in— we said— what you wrote is you said the job of a leader is to build systems that keep producing strong results even when the leader isn't in the room. What were the most important systems you put in place at your company around finance culture and decision-making that made the company resilient without you micromanaging everything. And I think upfront we can agree micromanaging everything is always a very bad idea.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:14:38]:
Well, but if you look at micromanaging in a positive way, you know, micromanaging is what you call looking at the details. If you don't take care of the small things, they become big things, okay? So there's two ways to micromanage. You can micromanage in a bad way or you can micromanage in a good way. So looking at the small details is what I call micromanaging, as opposed to the bad one, which is chewing people out, always looking over their shoulder and forcing them to do right, as opposed to letting them want to do right. Okay? That's micromanaging in a good way, is by not letting the little things become big things. Okay, so let's look at micromanaging both ways. In my book that I talk about in Essential Leader, uh, looking at the good part of micromanaging as opposed to the bad part. So now back to what you were talking about.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:15:37]:
So we held these meetings with our staff, uh, every Friday, and by doing that, we taught them how to hold a good meeting, you know, because they're going to have to go hold meetings with their with their group, with their employees, with their people that work for them. And so we taught them how to hold a good meeting. And that's what we did by meeting every Friday is to show them how to be, we had taught them how to do motivational talks. 'Cause we asked, we rotated around the room. We had about 30 people that came to that Friday meeting. We rotate around the room of people giving a talk on motivation. And so here now they're learning to be motivating in the way they talk to people. So because they're taught how to motivate, and so it's that teaching the right, teaching correct principles, that's how you do it.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:16:32]:
Because then it spreads down through the organization. If they know how to hold good meetings, if they know how to motivate their employees, that's the key to having employees retained, you know, wanting to stay. And they could see that in our meetings, we didn't allow vulgar language. We didn't allow talking down to one another. And so that's how I did this, by teaching and setting the example.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:17:04]:
What made you decide that now was the time to write The Essential Leader. And how does this book go beyond top things first in terms of what an investor and a board member or founder can actually do differently on a Monday morning? And by the way, I have to share a little story here with you. Um, I have a friend with whom I get online like an hour every Monday, and we call it the hour of the skunk. So we force each other to do the stuff we don't want to do, like sales calls, tax filings, and all that stuff. So I, I, I I kind of feel like this is something like a part of the same idea, like tough things first.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:17:48]:
Yeah, eating that ugly frog first thing every morning. You know, as you call it, the skunk talks, the stinky things. So the important thing is, if you look at Tough Things First, I wrote this book and then I asked my staff, how should we title it? And J.C. Lin, Dr. Lin, who ran one of my divisions, he says, I would call it Tough Things First. And so they all said, yeah, that's the right title. Because most of the book talks about doing the things we don't like doing and doing them well. Discipline, that's what discipline is.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:18:28]:
Discipline is doing what you don't like doing and you do it well. I learned to love the things I hate. And I know that sounds crazy, But I try to, if something I don't want to do or don't like to do, I keep doing it until I like doing it. So Emerson in his poem, you know, says, you know, that which we persist in doing becomes easier. Not that the nature of the task changes, but our ability to perform it becomes better. So if you learn to do something you don't like doing and doing it well, then that's, that's discipline. That's doing the tough things first. You know, there's no good athlete that doesn't do tough things.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:19:12]:
You know, practicing and scrimmaging and working out, you know, that you do as an athlete, those are the tough things. You know, 'cause playing the game is only a very small fraction of becoming a good athlete. The most of becoming a good athlete comes around doing the things you don't like doing, doing the tough things, exercising and working out and eating right and doing all the things you don't like to do. And if you learn to love it, you'll become a good athlete. And so good athletes have learned to love the things they hate to do. Whether you're a student in school, whether you're a parent, whether you're a CEO or an employee of a company, you know, learning to love the things you hate to do makes you a better person. And because otherwise you procrastinate. And procrastination is, how do you say that in German, procrastinate? I'm trying to remember the word.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:20:19]:
But anyway, it's you tend to put off things that you don't like to do. You'll say, oh, I'll do it later. And that's, That's a concept that you really want to overcome is procrastination. Because if you put off things you don't want to do till later, they become big things. If you have a leaky faucet and you don't fix it, it's going to cause you more damage. You want to fix it right now before it causes damage. And so fixing and dealing with things you don't like doing and learning to love to do it is what I do. They, my kids call me Mr.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:20:57]:
Fix-It because I'd rather repair something than to buy a new one. Why? Because I learned discipline. You know, I learned to take care of the problem and repair it and not just, so I'll go down and buy something, I'll go down or I'll call somebody, a plumber, I'll call somebody come and fix it. I don't do that. I try to fix it myself first. Then I call somebody. So that's the key. And so that's what Tough Things First was all about.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:21:29]:
So then I had somebody ask me, have you ever thought about what makes a good leader? And I thought, well, that's a pretty common name, good leader. You know, so I said, well, now you can become a good leader, but maybe not do essential things. And they're so, the essential aspect of being a good leader is what I wanted to focus on. And so I had 10 principles that I focused on to become an essential leader, not just a good leader. You know, we can think of people who are well respected around the world, but they're not necessarily good leaders. You know, maybe they're feared, maybe they're, financially well off, they've done well financially, but that doesn't mean they're a good leader just because they're financially good or they're feared as a leader. And I did not want to be feared. That was one of the major principles that I talk about in the book is you don't want to be a fearful leader, you want to be a loving leader.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:22:37]:
And so that's why we wrote the book, "The Essential Leader," is to focus on what's essential about being a good leader.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:22:47]:
Well, when you've been talking about not being feared, my first thought was, ah, Machiavelli would have disagreed with you, but that's a completely different story. Um, if you look at today's crop of startups and scale-up CEOs, where do you see the biggest gaps compared to your 10 essentials? Which skills are in dangerously short supply right now?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:23:12]:
I would say probably in the way we treat our employees. You know, I think I had, I shouldn't tell this story, but anyway, there's a person that I respected. He was a leader in a very prominent company. And I asked him, you know, why he decided to leave. And he said, well, because they don't respect their people. And it's a well-known company, it's a very important company. And so it's not that they're not doing well financially, it's not that they're not doing well economically, it's just that it's not a good place to work. Because they didn't treat their people correctly.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:24:09]:
We know a lot of companies that are doing well financially and economically, but they're not, they have high turnover and their people are not, they don't treat their people as important as they should. So I think the biggest gap is demanding 80 hours a week from your people. When I hired a person, I said, I'm not here to make you rich, that's your job. Your job is to make yourself rich. But what I will do is I'll help you become a better person. I'll help you become a better father, a better mother, a better husband. I said, I will promise you that within 3 years, you will become, you will come back and tell me you have become a better person. And then that's not the focus of these companies.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:25:01]:
They're not, their importance is laid on economics. They're not focused on helping people become better people. And that's what I write when I write my books, Tough Things First or my Zen of Zen or Essential Leader. I'm trying to help people, you know, with my program called Zen Starter that I have at these universities. I'm trying to help them. I'm not trying to make any money. I'm not trying to become rich. That's not my goal.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:25:27]:
My goal is how can I help people? And I don't see that is the proper focus of these companies is they're really not trying to help their employees. If you understand what I'm saying by helping. Helping is making them, letting them become better. I did not require my employees to work more than 40 hours a week. I didn't do that. I told them, I'm not going to make you work 40 hours a week. If you want to work a little overtime, that's up to you. But I'm not requiring you to work more than 40 hours a week.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:26:00]:
And if you, if you, if you have to work more than 40 hours a week, then we have a problem. I need to, if I see an employee that's working long hours, I try to find out why. Because something's wrong. If somebody has to work more than 40 hours, something is wrong. As you know, they're talking about going to a 4-day work week. And there's some pros and cons to a 4-day work week. Because, you know, the 4 days you are working, and if you're working 10 hours as your normal shift, you're going to be working 15 to 16 hours, you know, per day compared to spreading that out over 5 days. You know, do you see what I'm saying? That if you narrow it down to 4 days, which is, you know, more than half the week, you're gonna be putting in a lot of hours that you're gonna be not working with your family or helping your family.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:26:52]:
So I think family is number one and company is number two or three. So I tell them, you know, I want you to focus on your family. I want your family to be the number, the most important. I know you feel that way because you spent some time with your son recently on helping him. And that's what we do is we want to help each other. And as I said, that's the way I interview people is I tell 'em, I'm not gonna make you rich, that's your job, okay? But I will help you become a better person. How much is that worth? Was it worth to you to become better? And that's why we had a good retention of our employees.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:27:41]:
I see, I see. And the interesting piece, when we've been talking about measuring economic KPIs, do you think if you could put your 10 essentials into measurable KPIs one way or another, do you think they would become more important? Because people over time learn that employees who perform well on those 10 KPIs, on those personal 10 KPIs, uh, would be also better employees?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:28:10]:
Absolutely, absolutely. I will promise your listeners that if they incorporate those 10 principles and get those ingrained in your people, I guarantee you, you will be a successful company.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:28:28]:
You also podcast, is something I really like. And on your podcast, you've discussed AI and leadership, mental toughness, and decisions under pressure. As AI takes over more data and analysis, what becomes more important, not less, about human leadership?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:28:47]:
Again, if you focus on the individual, make sure that you're incorporating AI is not inhibiting your ability to help that person become better. That's the key. You know, part of housekeeping is cleaning the floors, you know, and being able to to keep your home clean. And my wife used to have to use a mop and a vacuum cleaner and a broom. And now we have a little robot that runs around and does it. Now she can focus on more important tasks, okay? So she spends more time on the phone with my children. She spends more time helping me. She doesn't have to worry about sweeping the floor.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:29:37]:
And so AI, can be good to help reduce the tasks that we do on a daily basis. For example, at one of the banks that we deal with, my wife and I, they pay our bills. So my wife used to spend, you know, 3 or 4 days each month just paying the bills and didn't have time to focus on the family. So now this bank pays all my bills. And so she's now freed up another 3 or 4 days to help the family, to help, you know, mentor our children, our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren. And so that's the key is let AI be, help us reduce the amount of physical tasks or the time away from family. If we can get AI to take away those mundane duties, that allow us to spend more time helping each other, then that's the good part about AI.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:30:40]:
I totally agree. I also at Startup Radar use a lot of AI to do like daily tasks, and it helps me out a lot. It basically helps me to run it more or less as a one-person company with some backup from Chris and my back office people. Um, are we in a leadership crisis? Because in your book Launch Piece, you noted that many people today view leaders with suspicion and negativity. Do you think we're heading into a leadership crisis over the next decade, and what will separate the few essential leaders from the many who will fail?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:31:24]:
That's, that's a tough one because Again, it goes back to what I was talking about, treating people with respect. You may disagree, but you don't have to be disagreeable. And so I think we're heading worse in the sense of the way because we have so much time and technology available to us that, you know, these kids that are on social media, you know, some of them are committing suicide. And we're not focusing on the individual. We're letting AI do that, or we're letting technology do that. You know, we have to spend more time being loving toward each other, speaking good. Leaders who speak poorly about others, remember I told that story about this couple that wanted to move to their town and And so they went and asked the old man, you know, how this town is. And he asked him, well, how was your previous town? And that's the problem is if we don't speak nice about each other, if we don't speak lovingly, whether you're a politician or whether you're a CEO or whether you're a husband or a wife, you're going to ruin, you're going to destroy the family.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:32:45]:
You know, it's not a good thing spiritually to be evil toward people. You know, that which is not uplift is of the darkness. Okay, so you want to be uplifting in what you say. You don't want to be degrading in what you say. And so if you find ways to compliment people even though you disagree, you'll find that you're going to get along better in your community, in your home, with your relatives, with your neighbors. You know, find something, some way to be complimentary, to express appreciation. That's the key. And I don't see us going in that direction.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:33:38]:
Let's talk a little bit about your contrarian take because you've seen a lot in the time you've been in Silicon Valley. You've always been a contrarian there, bootstrapped when others took VC, prioritized profit when others prioritized growth, people when others prioritized valuations. What is your most controversial opinion today about the way startups are funded and run that you think most of the ecosystem still gets wrong?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:34:11]:
I think it's because they focus on getting rich And I didn't, you know, that's contrarian. I never focused on becoming a wealthy person, never. I never thought of myself as becoming wealthy. I focused on what can I do to help, like in this podcast, I'm trying to make this podcast the most important podcast that your listeners will ever hear. And so that's what I focus on is helping you. And not myself. The reason we hire people is to help them, not to help ourselves. So when I, when I hired somebody, I said, I'm not, not here to make you rich.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:34:54]:
Remember, I said I'm here to help you become a better person. So when I hired somebody, I want— I wanted to give that opportunity to help them, help them with their family. So I'll give you another example story. So several years ago when I was running my company, we had a company picnic and I had a fellow come up to me, was not an employee, his wife was an employee, but he was the, you know, just a spouse. And he said, can I talk to you for a minute? And I said, sure. So we went under some, in the shade of a tree, And he said, I want to thank you. And he started to tear up. He started to, his eyes started to become moist and wet.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:35:40]:
And he says, I want to thank you for saving my marriage. And I said, well, how did I save your marriage? And he says, well, when my wife began to work for your company, we were filing for divorce. We were looking at potentially a splitting of our family. And after about 3 months of working in your company, she said, let's just forget the divorce. Let's go for counseling and let's see if we can turn our marriage around. So that, I mean, he began to really, you know, tearing up. And he says, I can't believe that coming to work for your company saved our marriage. See, so that's important to me.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:36:21]:
That was more important than anything else was to know that this woman who came to, and I didn't even know her. I mean, we had thousands of people. I said, you know, I don't, I didn't know who she was. But he said that because she came to work for our company, that saved his marriage, their marriage. See, so that's what's important to me is to see other people succeed. And I don't see that when you do a startup, I don't see that your focus is on helping people that come to work with you, helping them become better people. That's the key. The key is not making a lot of money.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:37:00]:
Forget that. It's how do you help other people. You know, you'll find that helping other people, you know, what comes around goes around. It's gonna come back and help you.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:37:12]:
I totally understand. For our audience, if Ray's contrarian view on VC and hypergrowth triggered you in a good or bad way, tell us why. Drop message or tag us on X or LinkedIn with your take, and we'll continue to debate there. Two more questions. Ray, you are doing awesome. Uh, we may tell our audience that you're 88 years old and you're still holding up here. Thank you very much, greatly appreciate it. Um, let's close with the final two questions.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:37:46]:
Advice to founders who feel they're at the edge. A lot of founders listening are tired. Believe me, I've been there as well. Many disillusioned but not ready to quit yet. Um, if one of them called you today and said, Ray, I don't know if I'm cut out for the CEO job, what best question would you ask them and what guidance would you give them?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:38:12]:
I would ask them why they don't feel good as a CEO? What, what is the factor? What is the major issue that is causing them to be unhappy? You see, people don't quit when they're happy, they quit when they're unhappy. So what is causing you to be unhappy? Now, if it's focusing on yourself, being— that's selfish, okay? And so if you're unhappy because you're selfish, then I can't help you. You know, it's, if you focus on your needs and you focus on your problems, you're not going to be a happy person. Happy people are those who are focused on others. Look at the people that are the happiest, and as your audience or your listeners as they think about people who are happy, those who are happy are not wealthy. They're not the ones making all the money. They're the ones that are helping other people. They're helping the old lady across the street.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:39:15]:
They're helping deliver canned goods or groceries to people who are needy. They're looking out at other people. They're not looking at themselves. And so generally when I find people who are unhappy is because they're focused too highly on what their needs are. If you look at a divorce, which is prevalent in the world, it's because each spouse is focusing on them, what their needs are as opposed to what the other person's needs are. In my marriage, I've been married 65 years, and in my marriage, I put 100% of my effort into my wife and she puts 100% of her effort in on me. And together we make a good team because she's not worried about what she wants, she's more worried about what I want. And me the same way, I'm worried about what she wants and not worried about what I want.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:40:05]:
So I would say if you're unhappy, it's probably because you're thinking too much about yourself.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:40:16]:
As a closing question, I think it's a thought experiment. When we look back in 20 years, what do you hope people will say changed because of The Essential Leader in how investors choose CEOs and how founders and how founders choose to lead?
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:40:36]:
When we start looking outward rather than inward. And so when you start seeing these leaders talk more about how good of people they have, how good their employees are, as opposed to how good their product is, that's when I know things are improving or going in the right direction. So focusing outward rather than inward. We've talked about that for the last couple hours. Is, is, is, where is our focus, outward or inward? If you're focused inward, you're a miserable person. You're focusing outward, you're going to be very happy.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:41:11]:
I think, Ray, that are closing words. Vielen herzlichen Dank. Thank you very much. With such pleasure having you here, especially not only the longest-serving CEO, also somebody from semiconductors with German roots, and who has seen such a lot in Silicon Valley. Thank you very much, was such a pleasure. Have a good day.
Ray Zinn | Founder & long-time CEO of Micrel Semiconductor [00:41:37]:
Bye-bye.
Jörn 'Joe' Menninger | Founder and Editor in Chief | Startuprad.io [00:41:37]:
Bye-bye. That's all, folks. Find more news, streams, events, and interviews at www.startuprad.io. Remember Sherri is caring.
Comments